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	<title>Comments on: A Scottish tragedy</title>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19661</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 00:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not saying Tommy Sheridan&#039;s tactical approach to the sex scandal was ideal, Frank, but then he&#039;s a politician not a strategist. Also, Sheridan was at the centre of the sex scandal. When facing allegations about his private life, the union leader I was talking about didn&#039;t react in an entirely rational manner either, but his advisers did. 

As I understand it SSP strategist Alan McCombes was quick to declare Sheridan finished - an odd reaction to what should have been an opportunity to take a stand against the gutter press. The really bad strategy from McCombes though was not appreciating the significance of Sheridan stating his intention to go to court for defamation. As soon as Sheridan mentioned court McCombes should have informed comrades that the matter was under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere. McCombes knew Sheridan&#039;s intentions before the pre-meet for the special executive meeting in November 2004, therefore no pre-meet and no special executive meeting should have been arranged, or if they were comrades should have been told that the matter was under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.

Even if McCombes (and Sheridan) didn&#039;t appreciate the need to separate the party from the gossip and the party from Sheridan&#039;s private affairs, there were various other clever individuals around at that time who should&#039;ve known better. Someone should&#039;ve realised that the SSP as a party and the sex life of the convener should never have been allowed to mix. Producing a set of minutes about the convener&#039;s sex life was amateurish in the extreme, yet six of the people present were supposed to be helping run the country.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying Tommy Sheridan&#8217;s tactical approach to the sex scandal was ideal, Frank, but then he&#8217;s a politician not a strategist. Also, Sheridan was at the centre of the sex scandal. When facing allegations about his private life, the union leader I was talking about didn&#8217;t react in an entirely rational manner either, but his advisers did. </p>
<p>As I understand it SSP strategist Alan McCombes was quick to declare Sheridan finished &#8211; an odd reaction to what should have been an opportunity to take a stand against the gutter press. The really bad strategy from McCombes though was not appreciating the significance of Sheridan stating his intention to go to court for defamation. As soon as Sheridan mentioned court McCombes should have informed comrades that the matter was under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere. McCombes knew Sheridan&#8217;s intentions before the pre-meet for the special executive meeting in November 2004, therefore no pre-meet and no special executive meeting should have been arranged, or if they were comrades should have been told that the matter was under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.</p>
<p>Even if McCombes (and Sheridan) didn&#8217;t appreciate the need to separate the party from the gossip and the party from Sheridan&#8217;s private affairs, there were various other clever individuals around at that time who should&#8217;ve known better. Someone should&#8217;ve realised that the SSP as a party and the sex life of the convener should never have been allowed to mix. Producing a set of minutes about the convener&#8217;s sex life was amateurish in the extreme, yet six of the people present were supposed to be helping run the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19654</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe wrote:
&quot;If the SSP had taken a firm stand from the outset over privacy and refused to enter into a debate about any one’s personal life the vast majority of left-leaning voters would have applauded.&quot;

Yeah I know!?! It was Sheridan that wanted to enter into a debate about it. In a civil action in the Edinburgh Court of Sessions. Where the press would, and did, have a feeding frenzy. 

Joe wrote: 
&quot;SSP SAY PRIVATE LIVES ARE PRIVATE or SSP OPPOSE GUTTER PRESS OVER PRIVACY or SLURS WON’T STOP THE SSP or NO GOSSIP PLEASE, WE’RE SOCIALISTS.&quot; 

If Sheridan had been willing to go along with any of those responses I think people in the party would have been delighted. In fact people said things like this were suggested to him. But he wasn&#039;t willing to do that. His strategy was to initiate a civil trial and commit perjury. He was a sitting MSP at the time, and Colin Fox was on one of the Justice Committees. 

Which part of Stott&#039;s pamphlet? It&#039;s 17 pages long. Bit much for a book review imo. I haven&#039;t read the book yet myself by the way. Have you?  

Joe Wrote: 
&quot;If Sheridan strapped his audience down they still retain the option not to listen. No one can be forced to become a gossip. People choose to become a gossip.&quot; 

Ehhhhmmm..... Starting to worry here if you&#039;re a little focused on some social science theorem you&#039;re working on, or if you&#039;re trolling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe wrote:<br />
&#8220;If the SSP had taken a firm stand from the outset over privacy and refused to enter into a debate about any one’s personal life the vast majority of left-leaning voters would have applauded.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah I know!?! It was Sheridan that wanted to enter into a debate about it. In a civil action in the Edinburgh Court of Sessions. Where the press would, and did, have a feeding frenzy. </p>
<p>Joe wrote:<br />
&#8220;SSP SAY PRIVATE LIVES ARE PRIVATE or SSP OPPOSE GUTTER PRESS OVER PRIVACY or SLURS WON’T STOP THE SSP or NO GOSSIP PLEASE, WE’RE SOCIALISTS.&#8221; </p>
<p>If Sheridan had been willing to go along with any of those responses I think people in the party would have been delighted. In fact people said things like this were suggested to him. But he wasn&#8217;t willing to do that. His strategy was to initiate a civil trial and commit perjury. He was a sitting MSP at the time, and Colin Fox was on one of the Justice Committees. </p>
<p>Which part of Stott&#8217;s pamphlet? It&#8217;s 17 pages long. Bit much for a book review imo. I haven&#8217;t read the book yet myself by the way. Have you?  </p>
<p>Joe Wrote:<br />
&#8220;If Sheridan strapped his audience down they still retain the option not to listen. No one can be forced to become a gossip. People choose to become a gossip.&#8221; </p>
<p>Ehhhhmmm&#8230;.. Starting to worry here if you&#8217;re a little focused on some social science theorem you&#8217;re working on, or if you&#8217;re trolling.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19646</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Frank, the reaction of the anti-Sheridan faction and their concern for the party (more likely concern for themselves and their own political careers) was based on a fallacy, the fallacy being that the SSP would be damaged by a sex scandal. It&#039;s actually insulting to SSP voters to think they are so prudish as to desert their socialist principles and the SSP over a sex scandal. If the SSP had taken a firm stand from the outset over privacy and refused to enter into a debate about any one&#039;s personal life the vast majority of left-leaning voters would have applauded. Opposing the gutter press, especially the News of the World, would&#039;ve attracted more voters than the sex scandal lost.

Can you imagine the headlines, SSP SAY PRIVATE LIVES ARE PRIVATE or SSP OPPOSE GUTTER PRESS OVER PRIVACY or SLURS WON&#039;T STOP THE SSP or NO GOSSIP PLEASE, WE&#039;RE SOCIALISTS. All that kind of stuff appeals to the SSP&#039;s core audience. How SSP strategist Alan McCombes thought getting into the gutter with the gutter press to be a good strategy I&#039;ll never know. The arguments he makes in support of such a move don&#039;t add up - see Philip Stott&#039;s pamphlet linked above.

As I said before, keeping private conversations private is a simple matter and something any political strategist should understand. Even in everyday life there are a multitude of ways to avoid being dragged into gossip. If Sheridan strapped his audience down they still retain the option not to listen. No one can be forced to become a gossip. People choose to become a gossip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, the reaction of the anti-Sheridan faction and their concern for the party (more likely concern for themselves and their own political careers) was based on a fallacy, the fallacy being that the SSP would be damaged by a sex scandal. It&#8217;s actually insulting to SSP voters to think they are so prudish as to desert their socialist principles and the SSP over a sex scandal. If the SSP had taken a firm stand from the outset over privacy and refused to enter into a debate about any one&#8217;s personal life the vast majority of left-leaning voters would have applauded. Opposing the gutter press, especially the News of the World, would&#8217;ve attracted more voters than the sex scandal lost.</p>
<p>Can you imagine the headlines, SSP SAY PRIVATE LIVES ARE PRIVATE or SSP OPPOSE GUTTER PRESS OVER PRIVACY or SLURS WON&#8217;T STOP THE SSP or NO GOSSIP PLEASE, WE&#8217;RE SOCIALISTS. All that kind of stuff appeals to the SSP&#8217;s core audience. How SSP strategist Alan McCombes thought getting into the gutter with the gutter press to be a good strategy I&#8217;ll never know. The arguments he makes in support of such a move don&#8217;t add up &#8211; see Philip Stott&#8217;s pamphlet linked above.</p>
<p>As I said before, keeping private conversations private is a simple matter and something any political strategist should understand. Even in everyday life there are a multitude of ways to avoid being dragged into gossip. If Sheridan strapped his audience down they still retain the option not to listen. No one can be forced to become a gossip. People choose to become a gossip.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19612</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well as Sheridan says, his biggest mistake was telling people in the party what he had done. Kinda true. Had he lied to them as well he could have pursued his court case without putting about 20 people at risk of perjury to protect his reputation. It was a bit much of an ask after that - &quot;Please risk up to ten years imprisonment, so that I can hide the truth about my sex life&quot;. 

Obviously though there&#039;s a bigger mistake that was made. When he went to the sex club he invited a News of the World journalist to go with him. A sex columnist apparently. That&#039;s the bit that makes me think he was a bit &#039;off his head&#039;. Problems with ego, and thinking he was untouchable or something.  I think a few people knew he was off the rails long before this, and decided to get evidence to protect themselves and the party should he go interstellar ballistic and turn against everyone. His passion and determination for committing to the lie is quite breathtaking. Impressive even. 

I joined about a year and a half before the first trial and never heard a peep about what was going on until just before the trial kicked off. There was an attempt to get him to drop it. Even an offer to pay any legal fees if he did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well as Sheridan says, his biggest mistake was telling people in the party what he had done. Kinda true. Had he lied to them as well he could have pursued his court case without putting about 20 people at risk of perjury to protect his reputation. It was a bit much of an ask after that &#8211; &#8220;Please risk up to ten years imprisonment, so that I can hide the truth about my sex life&#8221;. </p>
<p>Obviously though there&#8217;s a bigger mistake that was made. When he went to the sex club he invited a News of the World journalist to go with him. A sex columnist apparently. That&#8217;s the bit that makes me think he was a bit &#8216;off his head&#8217;. Problems with ego, and thinking he was untouchable or something.  I think a few people knew he was off the rails long before this, and decided to get evidence to protect themselves and the party should he go interstellar ballistic and turn against everyone. His passion and determination for committing to the lie is quite breathtaking. Impressive even. </p>
<p>I joined about a year and a half before the first trial and never heard a peep about what was going on until just before the trial kicked off. There was an attempt to get him to drop it. Even an offer to pay any legal fees if he did.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19609</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps so Frank, although the union leader was taking advice from his closest advisers and they thought the best strategy was a pre-prepared apology which he simply read out to the executive only. I think it&#039;s safe to say his advisers had also advised the executive members, or at least the influential ones, on how best to react, i.e. with a unanimous &quot;your private life is private, say no more about it, we support you, we&#039;ll be saying no more about it,  and we&#039;ll be asking others to say no more about it - unhelpful gossip and speculation must not be allowed to distract from union business.&quot;

This is hypothetical but had the union leader told his advisers he intended to go to court over the matter, I&#039;m fairly sure his advisers would&#039;ve told him not to make even a pre-prepared apology to the executive. The executive would&#039;ve simply been advised that the matter was under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.

In almost any scenario the union strategy would&#039;ve been to say as little as possible to as few as possible whilst still saying something to end unhelpful gossip and speculation.

There are also ways to have private conversations without risking a contempt of court charge for refusing to repeat the conversation in court. Talking in hypothetical abstract terms, not producing detailed minutes, and having a lawyer present are fairly standard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps so Frank, although the union leader was taking advice from his closest advisers and they thought the best strategy was a pre-prepared apology which he simply read out to the executive only. I think it&#8217;s safe to say his advisers had also advised the executive members, or at least the influential ones, on how best to react, i.e. with a unanimous &#8220;your private life is private, say no more about it, we support you, we&#8217;ll be saying no more about it,  and we&#8217;ll be asking others to say no more about it &#8211; unhelpful gossip and speculation must not be allowed to distract from union business.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is hypothetical but had the union leader told his advisers he intended to go to court over the matter, I&#8217;m fairly sure his advisers would&#8217;ve told him not to make even a pre-prepared apology to the executive. The executive would&#8217;ve simply been advised that the matter was under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.</p>
<p>In almost any scenario the union strategy would&#8217;ve been to say as little as possible to as few as possible whilst still saying something to end unhelpful gossip and speculation.</p>
<p>There are also ways to have private conversations without risking a contempt of court charge for refusing to repeat the conversation in court. Talking in hypothetical abstract terms, not producing detailed minutes, and having a lawyer present are fairly standard.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19605</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@joe 
I&#039;m think the reason the ssp couldn&#039;t do the same was because Sheridan said it was his intention to initiate a court trial, deny the sex story, commit perjury, and gain money from doing so. 

If the union leader had said that to everyone ah think peoples reactions would have been quite different.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@joe<br />
I&#8217;m think the reason the ssp couldn&#8217;t do the same was because Sheridan said it was his intention to initiate a court trial, deny the sex story, commit perjury, and gain money from doing so. </p>
<p>If the union leader had said that to everyone ah think peoples reactions would have been quite different.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19305</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 11:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember a trade union leader embroiled in a sex scandal apologising to the executive committee and every delegate, many of whom had discreetly discussed the issue beforehand, responded by saying someone&#039;s private life is exactly that, private, and of absolutely no concern to anyone in the union or the union itself. The minutes simply stated that a unanimous vote of confidence had taken place. To the best of my knowledge no delegate ever discussed the matter in public and certainly not with the press. Why couldn&#039;t the SSP have done the same?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a trade union leader embroiled in a sex scandal apologising to the executive committee and every delegate, many of whom had discreetly discussed the issue beforehand, responded by saying someone&#8217;s private life is exactly that, private, and of absolutely no concern to anyone in the union or the union itself. The minutes simply stated that a unanimous vote of confidence had taken place. To the best of my knowledge no delegate ever discussed the matter in public and certainly not with the press. Why couldn&#8217;t the SSP have done the same?</p>
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		<title>By: cwi</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-19235</link>
		<dc:creator>cwi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 18:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-19235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For another view of the book, you can read online this pamphlet responding to it - &quot;The Rise and Fall of the Scottish Socialist Party: A Reply to Downfall, the Tommy Sheridan Story&quot;.

It&#039;s at http://issuu.com/sdaly/docs/riseandfallssp?mode=a_p]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For another view of the book, you can read online this pamphlet responding to it &#8211; &#8220;The Rise and Fall of the Scottish Socialist Party: A Reply to Downfall, the Tommy Sheridan Story&#8221;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s at <a href="http://issuu.com/sdaly/docs/riseandfallssp?mode=a_p" rel="nofollow">http://issuu.com/sdaly/docs/riseandfallssp?mode=a_p</a></p>
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		<title>By: Legally Bald</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-18951</link>
		<dc:creator>Legally Bald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-18951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Liz Davies clearly has not read McCombes&#039; affidavit to the Herald and has just accepted his version of events.  That statement includes a threat to reveal information about Tommy Sheridan if he does not drop the case against the NoW.  It also gives a version of the EC meeting that differs in places from the final alleged version in the minutes.  He would go on to portray himself as a hero who defended the party&#039;s right to privacy, a privacy he had breached almost immediately.  No matter how Sheridan comes out of this, McCombes looks far worse.

She also does not explain why so many SSP members felt compelled to go beyond just commenting on the EC meeting and added other new rumours about Sheridan.  McCombes&#039; book goes much further, suggesting things about Sheridan&#039;s life and personality (without any proof being offered)and even repeating accusations about drugs that he acknowledges he doesnt believe, yet still prints the accusations.

It is a hatchet job, coupled with an attempt to re-write McCombes&#039; own despicable role in this.

Liz also seems to think that only the people who remained in the SSP were vilified and called names.  The split was not along feminsit lines, it was about the differing actions in the Sheridan case.

McCombes and his supporters tried to force Sheridan to drop the case, when that didnt happen they ended up in court, had gone too far to back out.

It was shameful, but this book is a new low for the Scottish left.

Thankfully, some members of both sides of that split are working together against the cuts, while McCombes and the old brigade continue to keep this going, younger SSP members have moved on.

Overall, this a poor effort from Liz, she should have done some research before writing on a subject she clearly knows only one side of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liz Davies clearly has not read McCombes&#8217; affidavit to the Herald and has just accepted his version of events.  That statement includes a threat to reveal information about Tommy Sheridan if he does not drop the case against the NoW.  It also gives a version of the EC meeting that differs in places from the final alleged version in the minutes.  He would go on to portray himself as a hero who defended the party&#8217;s right to privacy, a privacy he had breached almost immediately.  No matter how Sheridan comes out of this, McCombes looks far worse.</p>
<p>She also does not explain why so many SSP members felt compelled to go beyond just commenting on the EC meeting and added other new rumours about Sheridan.  McCombes&#8217; book goes much further, suggesting things about Sheridan&#8217;s life and personality (without any proof being offered)and even repeating accusations about drugs that he acknowledges he doesnt believe, yet still prints the accusations.</p>
<p>It is a hatchet job, coupled with an attempt to re-write McCombes&#8217; own despicable role in this.</p>
<p>Liz also seems to think that only the people who remained in the SSP were vilified and called names.  The split was not along feminsit lines, it was about the differing actions in the Sheridan case.</p>
<p>McCombes and his supporters tried to force Sheridan to drop the case, when that didnt happen they ended up in court, had gone too far to back out.</p>
<p>It was shameful, but this book is a new low for the Scottish left.</p>
<p>Thankfully, some members of both sides of that split are working together against the cuts, while McCombes and the old brigade continue to keep this going, younger SSP members have moved on.</p>
<p>Overall, this a poor effort from Liz, she should have done some research before writing on a subject she clearly knows only one side of.</p>
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		<title>By: brettvharper</title>
		<link>http://www.redpepper.org.uk/a-scottish-tragedy/#comment-18934</link>
		<dc:creator>brettvharper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 02:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redpepper.org.uk/?p=5057#comment-18934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[why indeed did colin fox state that tommys victory in 2006 should be celebrated by socialists?
why did the ssp executive ignore the wishes of grass route members?
why is trolle not considered as pathetic and abusive towards woman yet tommy is as he allegedlly went to cupids? sisterhood?
why did mccombes lie to his party about feeding stories too the papers?
why does mccombes not admit the real reason he fell out with tommy was because tommy would not lie for him about his affair with  leckie?
why did the ssp create fake minutes. oops they were lost right? only to be found again...
if the ssp hate murdoch and his rags why give them the tape? 
why was the extra 50k not mentioned in court?
why did the ssp promote tommy for so long if he was as useless as the ssp would have us believe.l?
why did duncan rowan tell me the whole thing was a screw job? why did he tell the notw what the ssp were doing too tommy was just what socialists did? build em, break em and build someone else...
why is the ssp so quiet about fiona mquire who they know tommy had never met??
why do the ssp insist i lied in court yet they know i did not. am i really a diciple of tommys. wow, so very not orriginal.
why wont francis admit they wanted tommy out long before 2004. you basically told me so in aberdeen.
will yous admit colin fox felt bullied by the ssp to do tommy in??
lastly should the ssp change their name to the scottish scabs platform?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why indeed did colin fox state that tommys victory in 2006 should be celebrated by socialists?<br />
why did the ssp executive ignore the wishes of grass route members?<br />
why is trolle not considered as pathetic and abusive towards woman yet tommy is as he allegedlly went to cupids? sisterhood?<br />
why did mccombes lie to his party about feeding stories too the papers?<br />
why does mccombes not admit the real reason he fell out with tommy was because tommy would not lie for him about his affair with  leckie?<br />
why did the ssp create fake minutes. oops they were lost right? only to be found again&#8230;<br />
if the ssp hate murdoch and his rags why give them the tape?<br />
why was the extra 50k not mentioned in court?<br />
why did the ssp promote tommy for so long if he was as useless as the ssp would have us believe.l?<br />
why did duncan rowan tell me the whole thing was a screw job? why did he tell the notw what the ssp were doing too tommy was just what socialists did? build em, break em and build someone else&#8230;<br />
why is the ssp so quiet about fiona mquire who they know tommy had never met??<br />
why do the ssp insist i lied in court yet they know i did not. am i really a diciple of tommys. wow, so very not orriginal.<br />
why wont francis admit they wanted tommy out long before 2004. you basically told me so in aberdeen.<br />
will yous admit colin fox felt bullied by the ssp to do tommy in??<br />
lastly should the ssp change their name to the scottish scabs platform?</p>
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